Glenn's Poker Journal

Husband to FeliciaLee.. here are some of my poker adventures in 'bilking the internet poker machine, six dollars at a time' (--quoted from Sean, Anisotropy).

Location: United States

NOT a poker blogger!

Tuesday, June 27, 2006

Making Luck, and Charging Others

After winning my seat Saturday evening, Felicia and I headed out to Vegas on Sunday.

My first couple sessions were great. I started at the Wynn 8/16, but the players where kind of tight and talking about how the 15/30 games were at different locations. I was able to finish one round only $22 down -grin-. (I defended my first blind with JTs, and flopped top two, but the late position raiser had flopped a set on me; we went to 4 bets on the turn... Doh! Flop was JT2; I just didn't put him on raising the blinds with 22; although 'set' was what I was thinking once he made it 4 bets.)

I moved to a 4/8 seat in a new game and found the fish that I was looking for. JTo flopped two pair again, but this time held up. A3o from the BB flopped bottom pair with nut flush draw (since flop was all spades to match my Ace of spades). Once an ace hit the turn giving me top and bottom and I bet again, the remaining player gave up. I more than made up for the 8/16 loss by the time Felicia came over to me and said "my game's no good, let's go".

We went to Bellagio and I got up to 80 ahead in their 4/8 game, until my luck just started to tank. All premuim hands lost; no draws got there; all steals were tharwted, CBGB's, etc. (CBGB => Continuation Bet Gone Bad; not the famous bar :) I managed to leave one stack ahead by the time that Felicia was ready. She got lucky with rolled Aces in her 20/40 stud game, and filled up against a flush and someone else caught in the middle. (Gooo Felicia :)

After Bellagio, we decided that we'd play some at Mirage (though neither of us like the room) while we waited for people to show for the dinner that Mason was holding for the 2+2 moderators. I ended up losing a rack in the 3/6 game... Oi! Set under set, losing to gut-shot straight and all kinds of things. I didn't want to get up because they were playing so badly.. but they were just getting there! Give you an example of how badly they were playing: I flopped quads with 'presto' on a board of 565, two spades. I got bet into, got a call, and I just called. Initial bettor check-called the turn, after the board double paired! Straight draw? Flush Draw? Drawing DEAD to either, yet he PAID a turn bet to see the river, drawing dead. He obviously didn't have a 6, since like I said it double paired: 5656. We would have gone to war. Just an example how sucky they were. Just too many lucky hands against me, or draws that just didn't get there.

This table, however, is where I witnessed the "Making Luck." It's been discussed about how people 'make' their own, and that helps classify them as a good poker player. There was one of those players at my table. (I'll call him Red, since he was wearing a red coat.) He'd raise either in late position or early position with a small pocket pair; everyone would check to him, and he would bet. THREE times he turned over a set. Yes, he got lucky. But this is the issue. No one ever charged him to get lucky.

Wrap your head around that one.

One hand, the guy that check-called him down had QTo for top two on the flop. I can't recall if "Red" turned or rivered the set, but he did NOT have it on the flop. Did Mr. Broken-wing, 'I'm not sure I have the best hand I'm just going to call you down', did he ever raise him? Nope. He could have bet the flop or check-raised it and made Red pay. Then, even if he was outdrawn, ie Red still called, he would have at least charged him to get lucky. Since it's 22-1 after the flop to get your set, he'd have to make 11 big bets out of the pot to justify his call. Perhaps every so often that will happen, but not enough to make the call correct to call a flop bet/raise.

However, when no one charges him, and he's the aggressor, they're just bowing to his bets; he's putting in what he wanted to put in anyway, so, he is not getting charged.

Remembering this, I took this thought with me when I played Wynn next. I got into another good game with a guy that would be maniacal at times. I witnessed him, twice, reraise someone that raised his blind. Once, at show down, he showed 96s. Of course it was no good, but at least the guy 4 bet him pre-flop and charged him. Later on in the game, I got in a hand with him.

Passed to me on the button, and I raise with KTs. Not the best hand, but still, it was passed to me, I had a decent hand, and raised (at this time of night, the game was starting to get tightish). He decided to try to take control and 3-bet me. I four bet. Yes, I had a marginal hand, but that didn't matter, I was playing the player. I'll have to say that I did get a good flop of KJx with two of my suit, but I did NOT slow play. When he bet, I raised. When he 3-bet, I reraised. He ended up mucking 44 face up.

Since I kept raising him, I kept charging him, on his marginal hand, to continue. I had a hand, maybe not premuim, but better than average, and I kept up the pressure. I did NOT allow him to try to take the lead and charge me; I kept charging him to continue.

Fight fire with fire. Don't slow play a vunerable hand, trying to trap the aggressor (that's how my set-under-set hand lost to a gutshot; flop is JTx, he has JJ, I have TT, and he just smooth calls on the flop?? JT on the flop! Hello! Draw central... raise!)

With how loose people are playing today, there's not much reason to slow play. Make the people pay!

Posted by Glenn


Blogger jusdealem said...

Congrats on your seat, Glenn! That is just awesome. Hope you get it all worked out and are able to play.

Great post, also. Nice play with the KT hand. Make 'em pay to get lucky, indeed! :)

5:18 PM  
Blogger Grinditout said...

Great post Glenn, great point about fighting fire with fire. Sometimes its hard to believe you have the best hand with KT on a KJx flop because of how agressive your opponent was preflop, but its important to remember thats just how alot of people play these days.
I lost a bundle on a similar set over set, I had TT, he had KK and didn't reraise me preflop so I had no way of putting him on KK.
However, you should follow "With how loose people are playing today, there's not much reason to slow play" with "stop trying to outplay these dummies!!"
If you get paid on almost all of your made hands, theres no reason to think that you can get them to fold when you don't have a hand.
Good luck in the ME/bingo game/coin flippery.

6:12 AM  
Blogger Falstaff said...

Great post, I'd never thought much about making people pay for their luck. Congrats on winning your seat, hope you can get it sorted so you can play it.

Maybe you could shave your head and play AS Felicia :).

7:00 AM  
Blogger Drizztdj said...

Limit poker confuses me, why would he 3-bet the flop but fold to a cap?

Implied odds have to be there with 10 SBs already in the pot to at least see the turn.

And now that you're out of the shower, and I've caught up with my blog reading, congrats on the seat!!

7:57 AM  

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